TiVo exiting legacy DVR business

(mediaplaynews.com)

61 points | by TMWNN 4 hours ago

17 comments

  • mkhalil
    2 hours ago
    I always felt TiVo really did a great job at identifying how important good UX and UI are for consumer products. Partially, the monopolies/cable companies knew/know they were able to get away with poor UI since consumers didn't really have a choice when it came to cable providers/cable boxes so it wasn't hard to beat them, but TiVo did actually do a good job.

    I felt like they had consumer awareness at one point. Maybe if they went with there own premium streaming service, as oppose to only trying ad-based streaming services (like Pluto) OR continuing to try to make money charging people monthly for a subscription to use a device they first have to purchase.**

    Instead they kept the old business model and went to more of a business-to-business service oriented offerings. Selling metadata, APIs, TV Guides, Car infotainment, all oddities IMO as most IPTV providers like to use turn key solutions.

    I actually use the Tivo Stream 4K as my smart device. Works great, gives me 4K, can download Android TV apps, and is cheap $35.

    Not a fan of ad-based TV (which is the Tivo+ thing, like Pluto, etc...), but I use it mostly for YouTube, Plex, etc.

    --

    *: My Plex server uses my HDHomerun for live tv; TiVo could have been both if it was more open. A TiVo competitor to Plex's Pass + Live TV service could of been there subscription revenue, and a TiVo competitor to HDHomeRun's devices could of replaced their DVR revenue. They could take the Tivo Edge, open it way up (as the HDHomeRun takes cable and give you actual m3u8's; this lets you decide where you view or record TV, and makes the device actually useful for commercial deployments as well (offices, restaurants, dorms, hotels, etc...). Pretty much: add features similar to Plex (i.e. combining my OTA/Cable recordings with my local media) + Plex's Live TV (Tivo already has the richest data and a sleeker guide) and combine the Tivo Edge CableCard and OTA in one device. This would appeal to many users, bring the hardware price down as it's one model, and provide them with both revenue streams like they are used to.

    • irjustin
      1 hour ago
      > Maybe if they went with there own premium streaming service

      If you don't own the content, you get squeezed. Hulu, Spotify all of these guys get nickle-dimed into oblivion.

      Netflix understood this deeply creating one of the biggest, successful pivots in startup-dom

      • pverheggen
        1 hour ago
        That doesn’t apply to Hulu though. It’s been co-owned by various media giants since inception (currently Disney, previously Fox and NBC.)

        It made sense back when it was launched but is basically redundant with Disney+ at this point. Still profitable though

    • NoMoreNicksLeft
      1 hour ago
      Going to hijack a thread... is there any chance one could point a Plex server at a different backend (in the hosts file) and then emulate Plex's own functionality? So tired of the internet going down and not being able to log into my own shows.
      • Xiol
        1 hour ago
        I've used a local server and just DLNA for over a decade and that's been fine on almost every device I've used it on.

        There's also Jellyfin if you're really into the whole Plex thing.

        • mapontosevenths
          1 hour ago
          There's also Kodi if you use Android based devices and only need local playback. NFuse works similarly for Apple.

          They just stream straight from the file share. No transcoding nonsense or server necessary.

        • NoMoreNicksLeft
          57 minutes ago
          DLNA doesn't do me much good... I need the parental restrictions and other such features.
      • mapontosevenths
        1 hour ago
        Use Emby or Jellyfin instead. Neither require internet access and both do the part of Plex you actually want without the garbage.

        Jellyfin is free, but I prefer Emby and bought the lifetime license on sale.

      • danielheath
        1 hour ago
        Jellyfin?
      • cyberax
        1 hour ago
        Uhhh... Plex works fine without Internet?
        • NoMoreNicksLeft
          55 minutes ago
          You don't know much about it. When you connect to a Plex server, you have to log into their backend, or it doesn't even know how to connect. It also does all the accounts/permissions stuff. An internet outtage is, unfortunately, a Plex outtage.
          • bigstrat2003
            50 minutes ago
            That isn't true. There's a setting in the server for networks which are allowed to access without authentication.
  • heavyset_go
    2 hours ago
    It's interesting/sad how we've gone from media that allowed for home recording, where it was both possible and legal, to what we have now.

    You can't even make a backup of the shows and movies you "buy", which just means "license", today.

    • mastazi
      1 hour ago
      I've gone back to physical media. Vinyl, CDs, Blu Rays and DVDs. I just buy what I like. I don't need a huge library, that actually gives me "choice paralysis" and I end up not watching/listening to anything.

      I still use Internet based services, for example I might find a new band because someone on Instagram posted about them. Or maybe I listen to an album on streaming before deciding if I'm buying it. Oh and some live music venues have Youtube live streaming (e.g. Smalls jazz club). With movies, of course I might watch a movie trailer or a review on YouTube.

      Speaking of movies, the situation is different because unlike music, I can't actually find most of my favourites on streaming services. However more often than not, you can rent them online, so I might rent (but never buy!) a movie through Apple, YouTube etc., then if I like it and think I want to watch it again, I will buy a Blu-ray. But I kinda gave up on pure streaming services such as Netflix etc. since their catalogue is so shallow.

      This obviously doesn't work for everyone, if your way of listening to music is just "Hey Alexa play a smooth jazz playlist while I cook" then of course streaming is the right thing for you. Same if you just like to watch movies casually and you're not a film buff, in that case Netflix & co. are OK.

      • cyberax
        1 hour ago
        I'm buying BluRays and then just ripping them. This also is the only real way to get 3D videos. None of the streaming services support them.
    • smsm42
      2 hours ago
      I mean, you can, but not allowed to, legally...
  • bfLives
    3 hours ago
    > TiVo has stopped selling Edge DVR hardware products,” the company said in an AI-based message.

    What does this actually mean? An AI-authored press release? A customer support bot message?

    • weikju
      3 hours ago
      It means “please we need some of that sweet AI VC money”
  • thom
    33 minutes ago
    One of the most delightful products I've ever owned. Almost perfect UX (to this day my wife and I refer to fast forwarding as 'bi-bipping' in reference to TiVo's sound effects), and there was a time when coming home to a random episode of Star Trek it had sought out was exciting and felt satisfyingly personal. Now everything is available on demand and all of the temporal problems that TiVo solved don't exist anymore, but it's rare to see a device so well designed in its niche.
  • zdw
    3 hours ago
    TiVos used to be great and unique, but ever since the core DVR functionality was obvious after the fact and everyone copied the feature, and then streaming came in, there was little unique, especially on the hardware side.

    For OTA recording, I've used Windows Media Center but it went out of support, and more recently the HDHomerun DVR, which both worked decently.

  • breadwinner
    41 minutes ago
    I am a current TiVo customer, and this is sad news. I use TiVo to record over-the-air TV transmission. TiVo software is great, it is the only usable UI these days. Compare it to Google TV for example. TiVo's UI is mostly text and some images, while Google TV is mostly images and some text which I find unusable.
  • scrps
    1 hour ago
    I once had a NAS entirely comprised of salvaged TiVo drives that ran for a surprisingly long time. For some reason around '04 I kept finding them in curb trash walking down the street, a lot were direct tv branded iirc. Never really found out why but also didn't look very hard.

    Ironically never once actually used a TiVo but still RIP was a cool idea and I got free drives out of it.

  • teekert
    1 hour ago
    As a non-American I only know TiVo from the term Tivoization [0]. So the company had its use for me as well I guess.

    ("Tivoization is the practice of designing hardware that incorporates software under the terms of a copyleft software license like the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL), but uses hardware restrictions or digital rights management (DRM) to prevent users from running modified versions of the software on that hardware." [0])

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization

  • bigtunacan
    2 hours ago
    I loved TiVo 20 years ago when it was relevant, but honestly I had no idea they were still around
    • amccollum
      2 hours ago
      They're not, at least not really. From Wikipedia:

        In April 2016, Rovi acquired TiVo for $1.1 billion.[8]
        
        In December 2019, it was announced that TiVo would merge with Xperi Corporation. The merger completed in May 2020.[9]
      
      Xperi itself also split apart in 2022, so it's effectively 3 companies removed from its original roots. Basically at this point it is only valuable for the vague nostalgia consumers have for the brand.
  • yjftsjthsd-h
    3 hours ago
    An odd progression. What's next? Disney getting out of movies? Google giving up on search? AWS pushing for on-prem? Microsoft shipping quality software?
    • mdasen
      2 hours ago
      In some ways, it's more like Disney getting out of silent movies or Microsoft stopping shipping software on floppy disks - or cell phone makers giving up on dumb phones or Apple discontinuing iPods.

      The market for DVRs has shifted a lot and while TiVo's system was wonderful, it's hard to get people to pay you a monthly fee for a service that's included for free with your cable package. Companies are often offering networked DVR service with unlimited storage - they record it in their data center and you just stream it later.

      TiVo really needed to pivot and simply didn't. TiVo should have become another Roku, but they were probably worried about cannibalizing their DVR revenue. They had the operating system and hardware to beat Roku to the market - or even become the primary alternative to Roku for years after Roku had launched. Roku launched in 2008 and TiVo could have followed. FireTV and AndroidTV launched in 2014 so there was a huge window in there for TiVo (and Chromecast was 2013 so that doesn't change things much).

      TiVo was focused on getting individuals to pay them $X per month for service. Roku figured out that it would be a lot easier to get all the streaming companies to give them a cut rather than getting it from the end users as well as being a platform to serve ads to end users.

      If TiVo had looked at Roku and said "we can do that even better," they would have had a very different future. TiVo launched a Roku competitor in 2020 based on AndroidTV, but that was way too little and way too late. Back in the late 2000s and early 2010s, TiVo had an absolutely amazing OS. They needed to release a Roku competitor stripped of the DVR bit for the cord-cutting streamers. They needed to pivot their business model toward the service-revenue-cut and ad-revenue model that Roku went after. They needed to see that cable and satellite was a dead-end as those companies would try to cut them out of the loop with their internal DVR products (and even if TiVo were better, most customers wouldn't want to pay extra for it).

      TiVo should have pivoted 15 years ago and become one of a couple dominant streaming box players. Instead, Amazon and Google followed Roku into the market even though TiVo had 6 years to enter that market and had a polished OS and great reputation at the time. TiVo feels a bit like Nokia. Nokia ignored smartphones long enough that they kinda faded away - and then their effort was too little, too late.

    • modeless
      3 hours ago
      Netflix stopping DVDs by mail?
      • phire
        2 hours ago
        IBM selling off their PC/laptop arm? Intel exiting the memory business? AMD spinning off their Fabs? Commodore scraping their calculator line?
      • yjftsjthsd-h
        2 hours ago
        Yes, actually, very much like that. Good thought, I'd forgotten about that:)
    • unsnap_biceps
      1 hour ago
      > AWS pushing for on-prem?

      They have! https://aws.amazon.com/outposts/

    • adrianmonk
      1 hour ago
      AT&T getting out of telegraphs.
    • whalesalad
      3 hours ago
      More like Enron or Circuit City announcing they’re closing corporate headquarters.
  • LVB
    2 hours ago
    TiVo OTA was great. Our unit eventually croaked, and we've gone full old-school: use the antenna, and what is on is on. Sure, we do have streaming services too, but for specific hours during the day, it's just OTA.
  • seanieb
    1 hour ago
    Tablo TV is perfectly positioned to become TiVo’s successor.
  • zymhan
    2 hours ago
    I always wanted a TiVo, but by the time I could actually afford (and use) one, Hulu was at it's prime.
    • gscott
      1 hour ago
      Now Hulu is being shuttered
      • javawizard
        1 hour ago
        It's being folded into Disney Plus. That's a huge difference.
  • moffkalast
    1 hour ago
    TIL TiVo is actually a real thing and not just something made up for Tropic Thunder
    • Apocryphon
      18 minutes ago
      The new Naked Gun mentioned it too
  • spullara
    1 hour ago
    ReplayTV was the TiVo before TiVo and its commercial skip was the best bar-none. I was sad when it basically died and had to get a TiVo which was a good product made by folks I knew but at the end of the day, nothing could beat ReplayTV's skip not even the secret way to turn on 30-sec skip on the TiVo. Kind of crazy how antiquated all this stuff is now.
    • timschmidt
      1 hour ago
      I felt similarly about my MythTV setup at the time. It was quite a pain to set up, having to acquire a TV decoder with hardware compression to make reasonable use of disk space without losing frames on the 400mhz boxes of the day. MySQL database, TV programming service subscription, IR remote receiver, etc.

      But the commercial skipping used a set of a dozen filters for things like black screens, volume changes, logos in the corner, and bayesian analysis to nail every single commercial transition. It was flawless.

  • mrcwinn
    2 hours ago
    First RealPlayer, now this!
  • diogenescynic
    3 hours ago
    TiVo was one of those clever incremental improvements that comes out and becomes ubiquitous. I remember a friend having it in 2001ish and it was so cool at the time.
    • add-sub-mul-div
      2 hours ago
      Another way of looking at it is that it's becoming not ubiquitous, but extinct. In streaming, an ad-skipping device is too customer friendly to be allowed to exist. Everything the tech industry recreates is more user-hostile and privacy-invading than its pre-existing counterpart. Cable didn't innovate unskippable commercials.